Srimad Bhagavatham 4.25.17

Sankarshan Das Adhikari:

Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya

Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya

Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya

puryās tu bāhyopavane

divya-druma-latākule

nadad-vihaṅgāli-kula-

kolāhala-jalāśaye

puryāḥ — of that town; tu — then; bāhya-upavane — in an outside garden; divya — very nice; druma — trees; latā — creepers; ākule — filled with; nadat — vibrating; vihaṅga — birds; ali — bees; kula — groups of; kolāhala — humming; jala-āśaye — with a lake.

Translation in Purport by His Divine Grace, Srila Prabhupada.

On the outskirts of that city were many beautiful trees and creepers encircling a nice lake. Also surrounding that lake were many groups of birds and bees that were always chanting and humming.

Purport.

Since the body is a great city, there must be various arrangements such as lakes and gardens for sense enjoyment. Of the various parts of the body, those which incite sexual impulses are referred to here indirectly. Because the body has genitals, when the living entity attains the right age — be he man or woman — he becomes agitated by the sex impulse. As long as one remains a child, he is not agitated by seeing a beautiful woman. Although the sense organs are present, unless the age is ripe there is no sex impulse. The favorable conditions surrounding the sex impulse are compared here to a garden or a nice solitary park. When one sees the opposite sex, naturally the sex impulse increases. It is said that if a man in a solitary place does not become agitated upon seeing a woman, he is to be considered a brahmacārī. But this practice is almost impossible. The sex impulse is so strong that even by seeing, touching or talking, coming into contact with, or even thinking of the opposite sex — even in so many subtle ways — one becomes sexually impelled. Consequently, a brahmacārī or sannyāsī is prohibited to associate with women, especially in a secret place. The śāstras enjoin that one should not even talk to a woman in a secret place, even if she happens to be one’s own daughter, sister or mother. The sex impulse is so strong that even if one is very learned, he becomes agitated in such circumstances. If this is the case, how can a young man in a nice park remain calm and quiet after seeing a beautiful young woman?

vande ham sri-guroh sri-yuta-pada-kamalam sri-gurun vaishnavams ca

sri-rupam sagrajatam saha-gana-raghunathanvitam tam sa jivam

sadvaitam savadhutam parijana-sahitam krishna-caitanya-devam

sri-radha-krishna-padan saha-gana-lalita- sri-visakhanvitams ca

nama om vishnu-padaya krishna-preshthaya bhu-tale

srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine

namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine

nirvisesha-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine

So, who were the first people who became Prabhupada's disciples? The hippies. What was their philosophy? Free sex. So how did they give up this sex impulse, become brahmacharis, brahmacharinis, controlled house holders, how do they do that?

viṣayā vinivartante

nirāhārasya dehinaḥ

rasa-varjaṁ raso ’py asya

paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate

Though the embodied soul may be restricted from sense enjoyment, the taste for sense objects remains. But, ceasing such engagements by experiencing a higher taste, he is fixed in consciousness.

So, the point is chanting Hare Krishna is better than sex. Sex is only for a few seconds only, intense pleasure and then finish. But Hare Krishna you can go on 24 hours a day. And those who have attained the platform of Ruchi, they can chant 24 hours a day in ever increasing ecstasy, like Haridas Thakur. Prabhupada explains that, I don't know if it's true nowadays, but back during Prabhupada's time in the 70s, there were people in Vrindavan chanting 120 rounds every day. I don't know if they're still here. 120 rounds every day they were chanting. There's so much taste in the Name, you see. For those who don't have that taste, they become slaves of their senses. Just like example, Bilvamangala Thakur, you see. It was a very stormy night. Rain, the river was flooding. It was very lightning and very heavy night. Who would want to go out on such a night? But his girlfriend was on this side of the river, and he was hankering for some sex enjoyment. I got to have sex enjoyment tonight. I got to have it. He went in the storm, and the river is flooding. And how can I cross the river?

He grabbed a hold of a corpse, if you can imagine, to get across the river. And he came to the wall, the gate was locked, She couldn't hear the knocking because of the thunder, but he grabbed a snake to get up the wall, and he finally got in there and she said, Oh, Bilvamangala, she said. Cintamani was her name. Oh, if you only had so much attraction to Krishna, your life would be perfect. She's a very enlightened, even though she was his girlfriend, they were having sex enjoyment, still she had some Krishna consciousness.

Prostitute. Huh? Prostitute.

Yeah, like, well they used to, what we call girlfriend in modern days, actually they're called prostitutes in Vedic culture. Yeah, my girlfriend, my prostitute.

Guru Mataji (Vishnu-Priya Devi Dasi): Girlfriend and prostitute are two different. Prostitute does for living.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Yeah, that's also another way of looking at it too. Prabhupada said like that. But anyway, whatever you call it, she said, Oh, Bilvamangala, if you only had so much attraction to Krishna in your life, you're going to be perfect. Oh, wow. He realized, oh, here I am running after sex pleasure, but she's right. I shouldn't run after the body of a woman like this for sex enjoyment. I should go for Krishna." So he headed out for Vrindavan, walking, it's a long walk in those days, all the way to Vrindavan. But along the way he saw a beautiful woman. He got lusty once again, he was following her home. But he was a cultured Brahmana family. And he followed her into her house and the husband said, he told, the husband said, all right, you're a high-level brahmana, you can enjoy with my wife. you want to.. I'd like to enjoy with your wife? Yes, you can enjoy with my wife. He said, so he went to enjoy with the wife, and he realized, Oh, what am I doing again? I was giving up this sex enjoyment, going for Krishna-bhakti. What am I doing again? Oh, no. He said, Mataji, please give me your hairpin. And he put out his eyes. Can you imagine? So now somehow he made it to Vrindavan. And he took complete shelter of Krishna in Vrindavan. And Krishna was personally coming to him, if you can imagine. He became such a great exalted Vaishnava.

So this sex pleasure is a very, very dangerous thing. The whole material world is running in this sex pleasure. Like many times, we have the example, when I was a kid, there was a toothpaste called Ultrabite toothpaste. On the TV they advertised. What was the advertisement? New Ultrabite toothpaste gives your mouth sex appeal. We kids are growing up thinking, oh, we haven't even attained puberty yet, we're laying all the sex appeal, it's a wonderful thing. We haven't even attained puberty, we don't even have sex impulse yet, we're being taught by the advertisement that sex appeal is something wonderful, you want to have sex appeal, yeah, I got to use Ultrabite so the girls want to kiss me right. I mean, talk about a ridiculous thing you know, wow. And then we see the other example of given times given that that that great, he became a great Vaishnava Acharya actually, yeah, what was the first part of the name? I want

Guru Mataji: Albandru, or something.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Albandru. Jamuna Acarya Albandru, yeah. He was previously a king, and kings had full facility. They had a whole palace. There's so many girls in the palace, and they were all the maidens of the queen. He could enjoy all of them for sex. So he was having so much sex pleasure, girl after girl after girl. That he'd become a Vaishnava, a great Vaishnavacharya, actually. Sometimes he remember those, his mind would flash back to those days in the palace having sex with all those girls, he would say

yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor

nava-nava-[rasa-]dhāmany [udyataṁ] rantum āsīt

tad-avadhi mama bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne

bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca

Ever since I engaged in the transcendental loving service of Sri Sri Radha and Krishna tasting nava nava rasa, ever increasing esctasy in that service, when i remember those days in the palace with all those girls, my lips curled with distaste, and I spit at that thought, you see. So, we devotees who come from that background of sex enjoyment, like the hippie background, we had to become spitters, good spitters. And even nowadays we see it's happening in modern day Indian culture too. It's very sad. You see the emails I get, it's just shocking what's going on. Like some girl wants to get married, she's saying this is a good guy and he wants to have sex with her. I go ahead and have sex with him, say you want to marry me and he just uses her and goes away. Even in India this is happening now, the boys are using the girls for sex pleasure and in like one night stands and dump her, have sex and dump her, finished. So in India it's also going on and I get these emails used to see what I'm getting sometimes oh it's really heavy, in India also it's happening now this kind of you know playboy mentality they call it, so it's a very bad thing this whole thing is serving the genitals. But what does Rūpa Goswami advise?

vāco vegaṁ manasaḥ krodha-vegaṁ

jihvā-vegam udaropastha-vegam

etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ

sarvām apīmāṁ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt

One who can conquer the mind, the words, the anger, the tongue, belly and the genitals, he can make the whole world his disciples. So it's a very powerful thing if you can bring your generals under control. You can actually advance in this pathway. There is a very, very important pathway that the ācāryas have given us. Nine steps, very important steps. adau sraddha, tatha sadhu-sanga. It's a Very important progress we're going through. First thing is you have some interest in Self-realization. First of all, you come inclined towards Self-realization. That's called śraddha. Some preliminary inclination towards Self-realization. Then you hang out with those who are in that mood. That's called sadhusangha, looking for the devotees I can associate. And then, by that association, they get initiated. They make a former relationship with the spiritual master. They take a vow to get out of this entanglement, and they take shelter of the spiritual master, let me do that, you see. Bhajana Kriya, they take up, the activities of bhajana. And then, what happens? Anartha nivrttih, All those lusty, angry, greedy, all those material desires that were polluting their heart, they start to go away. And they start to drop off, spit at them. They start to go away, they go away, they go away. Anartha nivrttih. And then finally, all that dirt finishes off, nishtha, they become very steady, yes, very steady in Krishna consciousness, like a rock, like the rock of Gibraltar, they call it. Very, very steady, you see. And then, they enter the most, they come very, very advanced, they achieve what's called ruchi. Ruchi means it's not some cheap thing. Ruchi means you can chant Hare Krishna mantra 24 hours a day and never get tired. Go on chanting, chanting, chanting, chanting, chanting, chanting. 24, that's a very high level that we can shoot for. Ruchi level, you can chant Hare Krishna with unlimited ecstasy 24 hours a day. And then, see that's called Vaidhi Bhakti after that point. But then, after that, after Ruchi, you achieve what's called the Raghunuga platform. It can be asati, asati, asati, Asakti. Where you actually realize what is your transcendental identity in the spiritual world. It's a very high level. We can't... The trouble is people want to jump over. They think, oh yeah, I know I'm a Gopi or I'm a Gopa. They want to jump over. Prabhupad says, there's already enough monkeys jumping in Vrindavan, jumping over the branches. So don't be some cheap, you know, so-called, you know, realizer of your rasa. It's a very high level. You have to go to Ruchi first, where you can chant 24 hours a day in ever increasing ecstasy. But then finally you come to that stage, one comes to that stage, Asakti. You actually know who you are, and then you... The seed of bhakti now is going, and you go to the... Then you go through bhava and prema. So, Prabhupada explains a very nice lecture I heard this morning, actually. He gave a Nectar of Devotion lecture here in Vraj in Vrindavan. He was saying how it's actually there within us. It's interesting, it's kind of indirectly connected with this lecture. He said that when you're a small child, you have no sex impulse. When you come to attain puberty, then the sex impulse is there. You just not learn. It's already there. It just awakens. So in the same way that sex desire awakens, interesting analogy here, in the same way that sex desire awakens your natural identity in the spiritual world also awakens at some point. The Asakti stage. You actually realize, you actually feel, you enter into the... It's like sex impulse, it's not learned, it just comes automatically at a certain stage. So actually you're realizing your... At Svarup siddhi, you're actually realizing your identity in the Spiritual world. It actually comes naturally at a certain point of purification. You don't have to learn it. It's already there. It just wakes up. And then Prabhupada also explained in this same lecture that one should not be in a rush. I've been chanting 16 rounds for 2 years, why haven't I realized my Svarup? What's wrong with this process? I got initiated, I'm following the rules and regulations, I'm not falling down. Why I haven't realized who I'm in Vraja. What's wrong with this process? Prabhupada explains in this connection, that just like when a girl gets married, she knows in due course she will have a child, but she says, my dear husband, what's wrong with you? We've been married for 3 weeks, I don't have any kid yet. Prabhupada gives that example, you see. So she says, no, I'm married, and in due course the child will be there but I have to be patient so enthusiasm is very important, utsahan and then patience is also very important.

So here we are, we should be enthusiastic. If we're not enthusiastic, we're dead, we have to be enthusiastic to come to that pure platform. But at the same time, we have to be patient. So I've been kind of going on here. I'd like to Guru Mataji to speak some points on this connection.

Guru Mataji: I don't know. I think when it comes to Anartha Nivritti question.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Controversial question?

Guru Mataji: No, no. Where does in the nine processes, where does Anartha Nivritti comes?

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Anartha Nivritti comes after Bhajana Kriya.

Guru Mataji: So, well, doesn't that take long to be...

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: That's also tough, and many of us haven't got through that point yet. Oh, it went out again. Yeah, actually for many of us, we haven't even gotten through Anartha-Nivṛtti yet. We're to speak of Nishtha, which is beyond Anartha-Nivṛtti. Many of us are battling it out with this Anartha, that Anartha, the lust, the anger, the greed, the madness, the illusion, the envy. We're battling it out with the Anarthas still. That's where most of us are, to be honest. We're battling it out in the Anartha-Nivṛtti stage. When will that day be mine. Bhaktivinod actually has sympathy on us, us, the strugglers in Anartha-Nivṛtti. He's very kind to us. He gives us that nice bhajan to help us and encourage us. Kabe Ha'be Bolo Sei Dina Amar. When, oh when, will that day be mine? When my offenses ceasing, taste for the name increasing, when in my heart will Your mercy shine? aparādha ghuci', śuddha nāme ruci, kṛpā-bale ha'be hṛdoye sañcār, Kabe Ha'be Bolo Sei Dina Amar, when o when will that day be mine? So as long as we're committing the offenses, you see, What do they say? Offenses make fences, that prevent you from realizing Krishna. So, the Anartha-Nivrtti stage you're free from the offenses now, you see. No more offenses. But the fact is, for us neophytes, we're still committing so many offenses. And we haven't even cleared the Anarta-Nivritti yet, what to speak of nishta or ruchi, or asakti, asakti, you see. So we shouldn't think, yes, I'm a raganuga bhakti, yes, I go to Vraj and I feel like I'm a Gopi. This is just nonsense. This is called sahajiya, one who takes the process very cheaply. So anyway, of course, the Goswamis were in that mood. They were in the mood of the Gopis. But we can't imitate that. We can't imitate that. And actually Lord Caitanya Himself is in the mood of the Gopis, in the mood of Radharani. So we were following in their footsteps and that day will come. We actually realized what we or in Krishna's Leela, in Vrindavan actually, because we're following Lord Caitanya. Now that we're going to the Vaikuntha Loka, we're actually heading to Krishna Loka. Everyone is following Lord Caitanya, that they're going to Krishna Loka, that's our destination, because that's Lord Chaitanya's mood. He's in the mood of Vraj. So we're actually going to Vraj in due course of time by following Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

But we shouldn't try to jump artificially. If We do so, we'll stay in material existence, but we follow very carefully and sincerely the orders of the spiritual master, trying to avoid all the offenses. We'll come to Anarta-Nivritti eventually, and then to Nishtha, and Ruchi, Asakti, Bava, and Prema in due course. Do you Want to add some points, Devi?

Guru Mataji: No, another question was this. This Narad Muni is explaining so much about body. Although the body is not important, why is he going around Puranjana so much, so many verses one after another he is explaining in detail about the body.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Well, the thing is, we are so much in the bodily platform that if we hear some detailed explanation of the body, and it can help us to get free from the body. You see what I'm saying? If we all understand the details, like Prabhupāda gives so many details also, about the body. We talk about the city of nine gates, for example. Why do we have to talk about the body? If we understand the body from the Vedic perspective, it can help us to get detached from it. That's why. If we understand the city of nine gates, these things are there to help us understand the body better than the doctors and the scientists can tell us. The Vedas give us better knowledge of the body than these rascal scientists do. So to have some knowledge of the body from the Vedic perspective can help us to get free from the body. That's why. Anything else? Any other questions? Yes.

Devotee: Ruchi stage is where one gets the higher taste.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Absolutely.

Devotee: So it is also said that one cannot give up lower taste unless one gets the higher taste.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Yes. Actually, we can get a higher taste even in the beginning.

Devotee: How is that?

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Even just like somebody may be addicted to rock and roll music, for example, but they find more pleasure in the kirtan, in the rock and roll music. So the ruchy, we get a little, we get a higher, we start getting a higher taste in the beginning. Why does somebody give up illicit sex, meat eating, intoxicant and gambling? Because they find Krishna conscious better. So the higher taste begins and starts in the very beginning actually. But it grows and grows and grows until you come to ruchi. Then it goes even sweeter after that. So we have a higher taste in the very beginning.

Guru Mataji: Then one has to be getting off the Anartha-Nivritti to get the ruchi.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Absolutely. You get some taste, but you don't get the Ruchi level of taste. Ruchi is when you have complete 100% taste, and there's no taste at all from material sense gratification. In the beginning though, we find that we get some special flavor. It's like the hippies, they were into illicit sex and LSD and marijuana. But they gave it up because they thought this is better. They got some higher taste from Krishna consciousness, better than their illicit sex and their marijuana. So they gave it up. They got some taste. But when that taste becomes absolutely 100%, that's the ruchi stage.

Guru Mataji: Yeah, but Anartha-Nivritti has to be there.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Anartha-Nivritti, you have to actually... Ruchi is two levels beyond Anartha-Nivritti. There's Anartha-Nivritti and Nishtha. When you're absolutely steady, there's no wavering, you're totally fixed, not a little bit, a little here. No, niṣṭa, niṣṭa, absolutely, totally fixed with no deviation, the niṣṭa stage. Here we have something coming in, rolling in from the Internet. Let's see what we've got here. Okay, let's see what we have in the chat window. Where are you, chat? Here we go. Tarun Krishna das. Why I keep committing offenses, even though I don't want to commit them?

Well, it's bad habits. You see, we have habits. We have materialistic habits going back for millions of lifetimes. We have habituated to sense gratification. That's why we have to break the habits by creating new habits. That's why we have sadhana bhakti. Make a habit for getting up for Mangalarati every day, Chanting rounds every day, hearing scripture every day. We have to create new habits to make our old habits. It's due to the habits, bad habits in the past. So the way to overcome it is you increase your new habits. Getting a habit of reading. What do they say? A Chapter a day keeps Maya away. If you can read one chapter every day from Prabhupad's books, you see, make a habit, or a sloka every day. Learn a new sloka every day. Get new habits. You see, get new habits, spiritual, transcendental habits. And the bad habits will just fade away.

Guru Mataji: That's right. Bilvamangala Thakur

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Yeah.

Guru Mataji: He gave up his bad habit of going to prostitute.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Yeah. That's right. He gave up his relationship with Cinthamani. But he took her as a Shiksha guru also, in a different way. He actually worshipped her within his heart, but not as a sex partner, but as someone who actually set him on the right path. He glorified her.

Guru Mataji:  And also, he become an Acharya.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Yeah. He had spit at it. Spit at those damn thoughts. Get out of here. Get out of my brain, you damn thought. Get out of here. Don't you ever dare come back again. He would spit at the thoughts. Get out of my brain. (spit) Get out of here. Don't ever come back you rascal thought, he was very heavy with those thoughts like smashed them, you know.

Guru Mataji: But, in the material world, time right now, as we give the example of hippies favor, not many made it.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Yeah many went back, in fact, I had, I got a comment on LinkedIn, from one of my Godbrothers from 50 years ago.

Guru Mataji: That means they did not get the higher taste from that and get carried away.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: But they have the sentiment. They still remember, like my old godbrother, Pulasthi[26.54 inaudible] Prabhu. After two years he went away, but he still remembers. He asked me if I had any memories from the old days. I got a message from him on LinkedIn, and he wanted to know what memories I had. He still has a feeling for it, although he lost it, but he didn't totally lose it. He has a sentiment. He wants to, if I can remember some of the old days' experiences from 50 years ago, he wants to hear my memories, you see. So I see that even though they couldn't make it, they still have the fond memories of it. I see that in my experiences. They want to remember those days, those glorious days, when they became a devotee of Krishna.

Guru Mataji: And it's mentioned in the Sastra, if one does a little bit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they cannot forget the taste of Kṛṣṇa.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: That's right. It's a very sweet experience in the whole life, to take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Hare Kṛṣṇa Das, Kindly enlighten, if one finds taste in matter, does that mean he is not entirely convinced of Lord Kṛṣṇa's instruction?

It's natural to have a taste for these things. It's natural to have a taste, but you have to... I mean, it's natural, these tastes are there, but you have to shun them, avoid them. I mean, Jamanacharia was, he still had a tendency to fondly remember those experiences he had, those sinful activities, but he has to reject them. In other words, there was some kind of a taste there, but he rejected when that taste came up. So, even though the taste may be there, from previous sinful activities, if you, when those thoughts come up, you can spit at them, then you're properly situated.

Okay, here we have a big quote from Sadhu Bhushana. Let's see what we got here.

sadṛśaṁ ceṣṭate svasyāḥ

prakṛter jñānavān api

prakṛtiṁ yānti bhūtāni

nigrahaḥ kiṁ kariṣyati

Even a man of knowledge acts according to his own nature, for everyone follows the nature he has acquired from the three modes. What can repression accomplish?

So, yeah, the point is, Sadhu Bhushana, one has to get the higher taste. Like the Mayavadis, they repress it. They repress it, but then they fall back again. Patanthi, they fall back again. So repression alone is no good. Because it doesn't work. Taste must be there. The only way to overcome the lower taste is to get a higher taste. They try to enter into tastelessness. My material tastes are burning me in the cycle of birth and death, so I must now become tasteless. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. You can't simply—repression alone does not work. They tried it. Repression alone, it doesn't work. You have to get the higher taste. That's a fact. And then he continues, so one should rather follow the words of Krishna and follow what Krishna says,

dharmāviruddho bhūteṣu

kāmo ’smi bharatarṣabha

I am sex life which is not contrary to religious principles. So one can utilize the... one has a taste for sex, alright, use it for Krishna. You have a taste for eating, use it for Krishna. Take prasādam. You have a taste for sex, all right, get married, have some Krishna conscious kids, and raise them to be devotees. We don't deny them, but we utilize them in Krishna's service.

Raja Ram Das. When we resist the bad thought in the mind, it comes back with more intensity and make pattern. Mind had it.. Yeah, you had to get higher thoughts, Rājā Rāṃ Dās. I mean, there's all kinds of ways you can get rid of them. Just like, I mean, it's really nice, all kinds of things that can help. Just like you get really bewildered, your mind gets totally agitated, find something that really enlivens you. I mean, one thing, the Prabhupada's books are there, Krishna's pastimes. Another very enlivening thing is to read some devotees' memoir, of how they met Prabhupada, and how their life was changed. Those memoirs are very... There's Hari Sari's memoir, there's Satsarupa, there's Srutakirti, there's Garga Muni. There's so many wonderful memoirs out there. And they're very exciting to read. Just like reading Gargamuni's memoir of the old days of 26th Avenue. They were sleeping on the floor, the rats would be running, jumping on top of them. You can imagine having a rat jumping on top of you in the middle of the night. What they went through to start this movement. They're the original disciples in our movement. And they had to sleep in a room where rats were jumping over their body. Even the rats, they could feel the rat whiskers on their mouth. The rat was coming up to their mouth, seeing what he could get from their mouth, if you can imagine. What the austerities they went through. So this is really enlivening stuff to read. You read that, you can forget about all your material desires. It's so enlivening to read such amazing adventures. How Prabhupada started the movement with the first kirtan in Tompkins square park. It's just amazing stuff.

Guru Mataji: Should we read the memoir or should we read Prabhupada's book?

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Both. The main thing is Prabhupada's book, but the memoirs are actually very helpful. You'd be surprised how the memoirs can actually inspire one to get more into Krishna consciousness. They're very helpful, the memoirs.

Okay, putting in a plug for my memoir coming out soon. But no, they're very helpful. They're very helpful to see the early days of ISKCON and how devotees were attracted. It's a very enlightening thing to read these things. They can help also to get in your mind away from all these material desires. OK, Arpith Srivastava. Regarding any follower of Lord Caitanya going to Krishnaloka, but I read something different in Bhagavad Gita 14.25. This includes not only Krishna, but is different than any person such as Vamana, Sringa. You could go to Vaikuntha. If you'd rather go to Vaikuntha, you can. There's no problem, actually. But also Vaikuntha Vasis can transfer to Krishna Loka. We've also read that. Even if you're originally from Vaikuntha, in actually Sarup, you can actually switch. Actually, there's full freedom in the spiritual world. Even if you're a Gopa, you can become a Gopi. Or you're a Gopi, you can become a flute. It's full freedom in the spiritual world.

Okay anything else, any other points from Gurumataji? Pointing over here, yeah, you have a question?

Devotee: Yeah, Like you mentioned that one get the taste, that how one gives up his conditioning and takes up to the Krishna consciousness, some taste is there, then why so it happens that after some time one again gives up the Krishna consciousness and went back to the...

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Because they did not fully embrace Krishna consciousness. They only partially embraced it. Unless you fully embrace it, you can be fall back again to the old tastes. They embraced it maybe, you know, 60%, but the 40% was still there from the previous.

Devotee: So what does it mean to be fully embracing this Krishna consciousness? What does it mean to be fully embracing this Krishna consciousness?

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Take it as your life, This is my life and soul. To become a pure devotee of Krishna, that is my life and soul. Nothing else matters to me now. Nothing else. Think, well, it's a little thing, a little bit here, a little there. I become a recognized spiritualist. There's some false ego in there. I'm only recognized as a great spiritualist. So I take it that Krishna consciousness is my... There's some material desire mixing in. You're doing it, but you have a desire to be recognized as a great spiritualist. And that desire can cause you to fall down. You see? Yet, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ no desire for wealth, women or followers, you see. Yet, you come free from all material desires.

Guru Mataji: Can I add something?

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Absolutely, please enlighten us ji

Guru Mataji: The memoirs are very beautiful, but if they are so fixed, how they can go back to materialistic life?

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Oh, those who write memoirs, they fall back again?

Guru Mataji: Many.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Give me an example.

Guru Mataji: I don't want to name.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Okay. That, if they came [35.42 inaudible] in search of that, then the best memoirs are those who didn't leave. Those are the best memoirs. Those are the real memoirs, instead. You know.

Guru Mataji: How do one know who is best and who is not.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: You can see what, by taking a look around who's here and who left, simple.

Guru Mataji: They do not left, but, how they can go back to materialistic life? Not only fully, little Krishna conscious, little material life, also, instead of progressing.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: And the best memories it all the Prabhupad memories are good I'll tell you, (Memories are like a) I'll tell you, all the memories of the early days of Iskcon I'm enlivened by all of them, even if they left, that's my personal feeling.

Guru Mataji: Memories are good and that show that they have dedicated so much, then if they had the rūci and they have gotten to that stage, how can they go back for material attraction?

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Because they had mixed desires. Simple thing.

Guru Mataji: So that means these memories are like, you know, to put oneself forward again.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: You could say that. But the memories are good. The memories are enlivening, there's no doubt about it. (It's exciting) There's no doubt about it. I'd love to hear those memories. You can argue against it, but I love those memories. They can tell what happened in the early days of this camp, even before I joined. I didn't join until 1971. So I hear about what happened in... I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. I don't disagree with it, but at the same time, if I can hear what happened at 26, at 518 Frederick Street, when they first opened, I'm very enlivened by it. I'm very enlivened. That's the first temple I went to. If I can hear some true stories from the old days, when Prabhupada first went to... I mean, it's really amazing how Prabhupada arrived at the airport in the height of the Haight-Ashbury era, and they were all in costumes. They came to the airport in all the costumes. It's very enlivening to read this stuff.

Guru Mataji: What I mean, there may be some material motive that way they...

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: You can say that, but for me it's very enlivening to hear about the early days that happened when Prabhupada started this movement. I find it very enlivening to hear about these things myself. You may not, but I do.

Guru Mataji: I'm not saying, it's very enlivening, but if it doesn't encourage us, seeing those personalities.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: I'm encouraged to hear what Prabhupada went through to start this movement. Personally, I'm very encouraged by all of these things. It encourages me to be... When I see what Prabhupada went through and how he went... What an amazing thing he did to pull off this movement in the middle of all this... The Kali Yuga, for me it's a very enlivening thing. I'm very inspired by all of them. You may not be, but I am.

Guru Mataji: I'm not disagreeing with the inspiration, but inspiration may be there, but then when we come to see them we have a question. How come this happened?

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: They had mixed desires. That's why they didn't stay. Okay, now we have Viṣṇu-rata. From śraddha to prema, at what point onwards external energy acts as internal as internal energy for the devotee? It gradually goes away. There's the, Krishna says, I am the source of all material and spiritual worlds.

ye yathā māṁ prapadyante

tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham

mama vartmānuvartante

manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ

I am, see. Inasmuch as they submitted unto me, I reward them accordingly. Everyone follows my path in all regards,O son of Pṛthā. So both energies are there, the external and internal energy, they're all coming from Kṛṣṇa. And according to one's desire, Kṛṣṇa facilitates, what either one in the way of the other. So, the point is, when you begin, at the very beginning, the external energy is more powerful and the internal energy is weaker. But as you progress, step by step, the spiritual energy becomes more strong, and the material energy less strong. And gradually, at prema, it's 100% spiritual, even at the asakti stage, it's 100% spiritual, and 0% material. Then it becomes mature in prema, because it becomes fully manifest, but the material desires are gone by the time you get to asakti, asakhi.

Okay, Tarun Krishna Das. How to get determination to chant regularly?

Guru Mataji: Somebody is using his phone or whatever. It's somebody else's phone.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: I see. Well, whoever it is. Oh, yeah. Bharat. Bharath. Yes. Bharath, how to get determination to chant regularly? It's a matter of understanding. Just like we know you have a disease, and the doctor gives you a medicine, and you want to get well, then you know I got to take the medicine. It's a matter of proper knowledge. If I understand that I'm suffering in the cycle of birth and death for millions and billions of lifetimes, the only way to get free is to take this medicine. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. Just like now I have bronchitis. They've given me some medicine, I have to take one pill every day. And I'm still suffering with this bronchitis. I know I've got to keep taking it until I get well. I've got to keep taking the medicine until I get well. So in the same way, I'm determined to take my medicine every day because I'm feeling the symptoms of all this bronchitis. I'm feeling the symptoms. I don't want to get free of these ridiculous symptoms. So I'm determined to take the medicine. So it's a matter of knowing that I need her to get well. So in the same way, when you realize you're suffering in the fourfold misery, the threefold misery, and the only way to get well is to chant Hare Krishna regularly, then you'll do it. It's a matter of proper understanding, that's all. If you understand things correctly, what's beneficial for you and what's not beneficial for you, you'll naturally be determined. If you're not determined, it means you're ignorant. You don't understand the situation.

Any other points from Guru Mataji?

Guru Mataji: Yes I have to find out Bharat, you have to find a good doctor who will give you this prescription to chant 16 rounds regularly. Do you think you can do that?

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: So now Bharat, give us your answer. Can you do that? Can you chant 16 rounds regularly? Guru Mataji is asking, I'm also asking along with her now. She's raised the question. And... We're waiting for his answer. Oh yes, he says yes. Yes, Mataji. Okay, now I have another question rolling in. This is the end, about almost the end now. Sadhu Bhushana. Bījaṁ pradā parampitā. He is the father of all living beings. Gurudev, Let's take example of even worldly father. Father makes his son the owner of his property, even if he does not completely deserve it, by dint of his being the son. Son becomes the owner of the father's property. Yes? Okay. That's a point. That's true. So, there's no question, it's just a point.

Guru Mataji: But the son does not get the property if he's disobedient.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: The father can cut him off from the will if he's a rascal. He has to be a loyal son, because the father is not dumb. The son is a lecher. (The father has a right) The son is using everything for sinful purposes. The father doesn't want to get the karma and giving the inheritance as sinful son. He'll get a sufferer karmic reaction if he gives money to the son and he squanders it on sense gratification. The father doesn't want to give the karma. So, he gives the sons who are loyal and pious, he'll give them the inheritance, not the rascal son.

Guru Mataji: And even if he becomes inheritor of the father's property, if he is not obedient, he will waste all his time and lose all his opportunity.. you get my answer

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Anything else? What about our local devotees here. Matajis over here anybody else everyone satisfied. Ready to take this path of great determination? Yes.

Devotee: So I feel scared while hearing these people are like on downfalls.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: You're sad because of what? (Scared) Scared. What are you scared of? Maya? You should be. You should have a healthy fear of Maya. It's very good. Everybody should be scared of Maya. Everybody should be afraid of Maya. When you're afraid, what are you to take shelter of somebody, right? Krishna. Guru and Krishna. Guru and Krishna are there to shelter you from Maya. It's like when some thief comes, We call the police, if you have a gun, you take out the gun to protect yourself. So you should be fearful of Maya. Very good, very healthy fear. Be scared of Maya. Very good.

Anything else? Everybody satisfied now to take this pathway all the way from Shradda to Prema. With great determination. One more? OK. Arpit Srivastava. I need clearance regarding desire to become famous, is material desire or not? Fame should be, according to Lord Caitanya, who said, a man is famous when he is known as a great devotee, that is a real fame. One becomes great man in Krishna consciousness and is known and is truly famous. One who does not have such fame is infamous." Prabhupad told me I could desire to become famous. But he said, all material desires must be zero. So if your desire for fame is for pushing forward Krishna consciousness and not for you know, getting a bunch of girls or a bunch of money or whatever. If your desire is to become famous for this, purely for the purpose of spreading Krishna consciousness then it's good. But if it's mixed in with yeah, I can have a bunch of girls worshipping me, maybe I can get something going with them, or get a bunch of money I can use for enjoyment. If it's mixed with pure desire, then it's bad. But as Prabhupad told me, I could aspire to become famous. He said, first become all material desires Zero, then think famous Vaishnava. He told me in a letter. So fame can be used in Kṛṣṇa's service if it's based purely on serving Lord Caitanya's mission. Because Lord Caitanya said, wherever you meet, become a guru and deliver them. So one has desire to serve Lord Caitanya's order. Prabhupad told us to deliver the whole world. So, delivering the whole world means you become famous as a world deliverer. So, if your desire is pure for the sake of saving the souls from their suffering, then it's a spiritual thing, spiritual desire. Otherwise, it's material. So one has to be very careful. In the letter he said, he said, all material, he underlined with his pen when he signed his name, all material desires, zero. So that's the problem, is we have all these material desires, and that's why we're not famous. You see, we're infamous. It's our infamy that we still have holding on to this lust, anger, greed, madness, illusion, and envy. That's our infamy. But When they're all gone, automatically becomes famous. Happens automatically, but all material desires are zero. You don't have to strive for it independently, it'll happen naturally, automatically. That's the point.

Anything else?

Guru Mataji: I was thinking about this question here. To become famous, pure devotee is naturally famous.(Yeah) Everybody will go after him. But if somebody has many women or many things, maybe some unscrupulous people will go after him. So a pure devotee is attractive. (Yeah)

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: You see, there are many famous people, they're all materialists, you see. I don't want to name any names. There's some really famous people out there and they're gross materialists. That's due to their past karma, past pious activities. They have that fame, but now they're using it for sense gratification. They will suffer from the animal kingdom in their next birth. So, yeah, there are many, many famous people out there, but they come and go. Right now, there's a big famous person, next life, it'll be a dog. You see, where is his fame now, you see? So, but one who become famous, a devotee, he's eternally famous. That's the difference, spiritual fame is eternal material fame is temporary.

Guru Mataji: Srila Prabhupada said, Where is Napoleon?

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Yeah where is Napoleon?

Guru Mataji: Napoleon is France, France is Napoleon

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: He's some dog running around the Eiffel Tower right now, or some rat running around the Eiffel Tower right now. That's where Napoleon went, you see.

Guru Mataji: A rat, a rat.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: A rat running around the Eiffel Tower.

Guru Mataji: And Francis is still there, Napoleon.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Oh yeah, that's Prabhupāda said. Francis is there, where is Napoleon? Oh, there was an old saying, Napoleon is Francis and that's Napoleon, right. Francis is where is Napoleon? Prabhupāda's point, very good. Thank you, Guru Mataji, for reminding us. Napoleon is France, France is Napoleon. Where is Napoleon now? France is there, but Napoleon is long gone.

Guru Mataji: But not everybody liked Napoleon. There were so many who hated him, like anything.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: Oh yeah, that's true. Any big famous person, he's loved and he's hated.

Guru Mataji: But devotees are always loved. Dheera dheera janapriya karo.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari: That's right. Even if they're famous, they're loved both by the ruffians and the general. But the saintly and even the demoniac people loved. The Goswamis were loved by everybody. By the pious and the impious, they loved them also. They were loved by everybody. So become like that. That kind of fame is very good, become like a Goswami. (okay) okay, we stop here. Everybody, thank you all for tuning in.

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare 

Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare